Some people want to be punished. Some women want to be slapped around. Some men do too. I think for the most part if women are in an abusive relationship and they know it and they stay in it, they must be digging it. I suppose some people might think that's an irresponsible statement. I'm sure there are a lot of women who are trapped economically; they have all the kids and they have to deal with it. But I havе friends who have money and arе educated and they stay in abusive relationships, so they must be getting something out of it. The difference between abuse and S & M is the issue of responsibility.

I talked to a dominatrix once and she said the definition of S & M was that you let someone hurt you who you know would never hurt you. It's always a mutual choice. You have an unstated agreement between you that this is the dialogue you have, an unconscious agreement. I don't even think S & M is about sex. I think it's about power, the struggle for power. S & M can involve sex, but it doesn't have to. It's a head trip.